FYI
On Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 12:17 AM, Patrick Fox wrote:
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Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 12:17 AM
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FYI
Desiree, Kristopher: Gabriel told me, this evening, that Kristopher told him that he (Gabriel) and I are not really Jewish because there is no Jewish heritage in our ancestry. There seems to be some confusion (or perhaps ignorance?). Allow me to clear it up. First: Judaism is a religion, not a race. A person can be born into a family of any religion (or no religion) then make a conscious decision to be Jewish. Likewise, a person can be born into a Jewish family but then decided to be Christian, or atheist, or Wiccan if that's what he's into and believes in. Gabriel's ancestry has absolutely nothing to do with what he chooses to believe and to commit himself to. Second: you seem to really be clinging to your belief that I was born with the name Ricky Riess and that my father is the Steve Riess you've spoken to. I shall indulge your belief for a moment, but only assuming arguendo, in order to point out the level of ignorance or denial of Mr. Riess. The surname "Riess" is actually a common Jewish-German name. Mr. Riess insists that he is not Jewish and that his ancestors were from the Ukraine. However, Riess is not Ukrainian, it's German. Jewish-German. Don't believe me? Look it up. Here's a link to a Wikipedia page that contains a list of well known/common Jewish names ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_surnames ). Scroll down until you get to the 'R's. Or, I'll make it easier, here's a link to the page with the 'R's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Jewish_surnames&pagefrom=Pastern ack#mw-pages ). Do you see it there? Near the bottom of the first column? Not convinced? Look here ( http://www.hebrewsurnames.com/RIESS ). Or how about this one ( http://www.4crests.com/riess-coat-of-arms.html ). Or just Google [riess jewish surname]. It's not coincidence that both Gabriel's first and last names are Hebrew (you may recall "Gabriel" was my suggestion)? Don't you do any research or fact checking before you speak? Rather than relying on the declarations of angry, self-hating man like Mr. (Steve) Riess, of whom you know nothing and cannot say whether he is a credible source of information, I recommend (and it's only a recommendation) that you do a little verification of facts on your own. That way you won't look like such a fool when you try to convince Gabriel he's not Jewish because his ancestors were not. And, yes, I'm saying you look like a fool because when Gabriel comes home and tells me about what you said and I show him the irrefutable facts and evidence...you look like a fool - to me, to Gabriel, and to anyone else that hears about it. Third: under Torah law a child is automatically Jewish if his father is Jewish (unless the child later makes a conscious decision not to follow the God of Israel). It was rabbinic law that changed it to the mother being the determining parent (rather than the father). I don't believe that the rabbinate is endowed with the authority to override God's commandments and therefore, I acknowledge and follow, the Torah, not rabbinic law. I respectfully request, in the future, you refrain from speaking to Gabriel about matters you clearly know nothing about (such as Judaism). You can ASK him anything you want about it, but don't try to influence him based on ignorance and misinformation. When he asked me about your religious beliefs I told him the last I heard you claimed to be Wiccan, but that was a long time ago. When he asked what Wiccan was I told him I wasn't qualified to answer that. You see how easy it is. There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". And then you're child doesn't feel like you're lying to him about something he seems to feel fairly strongly about. Good evening. Fox P.S. I'm certain that you're going to get all bent out of shape and say I'm being disrespectful and insulting and you're going to want to write one of your own insulting emails in response, but it's really not necessary because 1) I don't believe anything I have said is insulting or disrespectful (the closest I have come to being disrespectful is calling you ignorant, but that's not disrespect - you've stated yourself that you know nothing about Judaism); and 2) I have no respect for you anyway (perhaps, in part, because you so frequently speak out of ignorance).
On Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 12:54 AM, Desiree Capuano wrote:
Oh that's fine Fox. I admitted that I could be wrong, just that I thought to convert you had to go through some lengthy process. It doesn't really matter to me either way and as I told Gabriel; he simply needs to tell me what he needs - I don't have to understand why. I don't subscribe to any organized religion so it makes no difference to me. Kris does ask about it because he has a natural curiosity and likes to hear it from Gabriel's perspective. Anyway, I have to go to bed. Goodnight.
On Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 7:54 AM, Patrick Fox wrote:
The conversion ritual/process/requirement is a rabbinic law. There is no reference to a conversion requirement in the Torah. Rabbinic law also provides that if one's ancestry was Jewish, at any point, then that person is considered Jewish under Orthodox law, even if one or more generations had moved away from Judaism and had lost all connection to it. I just returned from dropping Gabriel off at school and he told me that you told him that some of his ancestors were Nazis. Did you research your genealogy and determine that to be a fact or is it a completely unfounded story with no relevance (e.g. that your mother was related to Emeril Lagasse or your father was related to Lily Tomlin)? Gabriel told me that Kristopher asked him why he wanted to be Jewish. Then proceeded to tell him that people are usually born into a religion and that there is no Judaism in his (Gabriel's) background so he cannot really Jewish. That doesn't sound like curiosity it sounds like trying to convince Gabriel that he cannot be Jewish. And if Kristopher is so naturally curious (which, itself, is impossible because curiosity is not a natural or biological trait - it's behavioral) then he should research the topics of his curiosity from reliable sources - not ask a child who has only recently decided to accept the Covenant. If you have any evidence to support your claim that any of Gabriel's ancestors were Nazi's I would be very interested in that (for my own curiosity) so I would like to request a copy of your sources. Thanks, Fox
On Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 12:29 PM, Desiree Capuano wrote:
It could be a tall tale that I was told, but I'm sure you recall that I'm first generation American on my Dad's side. He was born in Germany as we're both his parents (my grandmother and the man that sired my father). Grandma was pregnant with my father when she met my grandfather (who is American) Mr. Tomlin. Lily Tomlin is a relative through his family line (although only by law and very distant). Emeril would actuall be related through my mother's line as her maiden name is Lagasse - I confirmed this with Grandpa Lagasse. As far as the German blood line goes - it is very prevalent as I am one entire half at least full blood German. Our family still owns a farm outside of Munich. Before the wall came down we were considered East Germans. I have spoken with my father regarding WWII and he informed me that there were distant uncles, cousins, etc that had no choice but to participate. As I understand it, a lot of them moved to South America to forget what happened and what they did. I was simply pointing out the irony of the situation for young Gabriel as it is most definitely in the blood. It doesn't change who he is and it certainly doesn't prevent, prohibit or complicate his choice of religion or belief. From what I know Judaism is a wonderful and enriching faith. Once again, we're just curious - especially when he gets off the plane and immediately starts pushing the fact that he's jewish and giving me the rundown of do's and don'ts I have to accommodate. You say that Gabriel is far advanced and should be treated like an adult so you shouldn't have a problem if Gabriel is asked some challenging questions and maybe if he thinks about them for himself it will make his faith stronger as he will have come up with the answer as he sees it. However, some of the rules do seem a little bizarre to me so I figured the easiest thing to do is find out what the rules are when he gets here and try not to understand the reasoning behind it. And hey, if nothing else, it's something the 2 of you can share and I think that's cool.